After the article we had yesterday about the big scam lawyer “Joe” we got some emails about a property broker in Pattaya that also trying to fraud people. The name of this property agent in Pattaya will soon be known to the public but they are looking for victims.
We normal do not write about cases to be but this case we talked to the lawyers in questions and seen the files they submitted in to the court.
Apparently a very big property agent in Pattaya have been taking deposits and never given the money to the owner of the houses leaving the buyers stranded.
He (because it is a he and he is a foreigner) has selected customers that do not stay in Thailand and have asked them to send money to him. When he got the money he have simple kept the money and not given the owners of the property any money.
My guess is that he will soon run away from Thailand because he will be arrested otherwise. This property agent has a big office in the Pattaya area and always advertises in many newspapers.
If you feel that you have been scammed in a similar way please contact us and we will talk to the lawyer about this and ask him to contact you. The more people sue in the same time the better.
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In this blog I have warned the readers countless times not to buy property in Thailand. After reading two articles in pattayadailynews.com I know that I have not been wrong warning you.
The pitfalls are so many and so serve that you might wonder if there is any safe way to actually own a property in Thailand? It is all about the land document and if someone steals or take a copy of the dead you can lose your property. How many people just leave the dealings with renting and selling the property with some broker in Thailand that is not even licensed? (There is no licensed or certified property agent in Thailand)
The risk of getting caught in Thailand is so small in economic crimes and the profit of doing a crime like this is so big and with big profit you can buy big protection. People do not care anymore if they fraud someone it is part of the system and they do not even think about getting caught. The court cases sometimes lasts for five years or more and if you feel the verdict is bad for you, just flee the country. If the criminal is Thai and the victim is foreigners then the chance of him ever winning the case in court is very small.
Property Agents have often very little to lose since they seldom have an office or even a company behind them. Only a few property agents make it to the top because they managed to sell one or a few houses. The rest of them are just small sharks waiting to make it to the top but most of them never will. Sometimes the temptation for the fast money get to big and when some good hearted seller give them too much trust the temptation just get to big.
If you still want to buy properties in Thailand despite what I have said then please read these exxlent artciels and get a head start of the cheating Thai property agents.
http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2009/11/18/scam-alert-condo-stealing-easier-than-you-might-think/
http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/03/04/real-estate-sale-investment-pitfalls-in-thailand/
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In an article in the Scandinavian magazine Pattaya Tidende you can read among others things about a journalist that nowadays stays in a hotel rather than in a apartment. He tried to rent an apartment two times and both times he got cheated on the deposit for a stupid reason. People who lived here a couple of years and rented a few house or apartment are kind of tagged and we know that you should have a party if you get back the deposit.
You almost never get the deposit back and the landlord always want to hold the total deposit way to long even if it is for a water bill of 200 THB. Even if you try to fix broken things before you leave they will still find other problems.
My first shop house in Bangkok was my first lesson, I renovated it for over 200 000 THB and when I moved out the landlord said I totally destroyed her house. Now she had toilets on each floor and all the floors had tiles plus a new electric system. I had no idea how she could come to that idea but she just said take me to court. Rather than wasting two years in court I simply took out everything I had put in, to my landlords anger off course.
So what can you do about the deposit in Thailand?
- Make sure everything works before you move in and I mean everything, every little lamp or door lock.
- Make sure you take photos when you move in of the entire house or a video tape.
- Do not sign for things that are not there.
- Put in the contract that the landlord should fix broken stuff not you, if you did not cause it off course.
- Put in the contract that the deposit should be paid back the same day you move out. Electric and water can be paid on the same day for a very small extra fee.
- Make sure the landlord really signs for the contract and not some agent, they always want to see your passport make sure you see and take copy of their land papers.
- Never take a property agents word for anything it is not worth a dime, make sure all your demands are in the contract.
- If you do not like the contract and the gut feeling about the rental agreement you are probably right, move on the next object it is always a buyer’s market in Thailand.
- Put a note of everything the landlord or agent says, you are a consumer and you can take them to the consumer court if you feel you have been tricked. They probably don’t because they promise you everything just to get the commission. Even better video record the time the agent shows you the house.
Yes I really thing Thai property agents and landlords are down there with Tuk Tuk drivers and Jet Ski beach boys.
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Buy Property Thailand
Every day I read about some broker in Thai magazine he have made himself or financed with advertising, they talk about at the time to buy a property in Thailand is now.
Before the crises in 2009 the same property agents in Thailand talked about the price will soon go up and the best time to buy is now.
When the economic crises were a fact they talked about all the good deals you could do now and the best time to buy was, yes you guessed the best time to buy is now!
Who are the property agents in Thailand?
Most of them do not have any education or diploma when it comes to property development or selling or buying properties. I would guess that about 95 percentages have no former education when it comes to properties. I know many of them in both Bangkok and Pattaya and they are working with a pocket office and just do what others do, passing time waiting for the golden goose to come and buy the property that will make them a fortune in commission.
There are a few companies that also have offices in UK and America and the top staff in those companies has some kind of experience or education with properties.
But the majority of all the property agents just slipped in on banana shelf and thought if others can do it so can I.
There are also Thai property agents but they seldom cater for the foreign clients since the Thais have a different approach of buying properties. I have seen Thai people go in to a property developer and look at some sketches and after a one hour of sales talk and never checked anything just hand over a first deposit. A foreigner living in Thailand would never do this (hopefully) they want to check everything before they buy a property worth millions.
The truth about the Property value in Thailand
I can see many agents talking about the economic crises are over but just last week Dubai property market fell like Island did. Many countries like Greece and Ireland might follow in the coming month. The stock market has rebound because the dollar and cost borrowing money is on an all time low.
Thailand is not stable as I saw somebody wrote in a sponsored magazine last week, he said that the current government will win the elections in 2010 and make way for a stable Thailand.
What election? There is not even a talk about election in Thailand and they sure not going to win it just yet. The yellow shirts (yes the people who occupied the airport) have now created a party of their own so you can count them out for supporting the current Thai government.
Read a few comment on the message board of Bangkok Post about the yellow shirts idea about foreigners owning property you might thinking twice before buying anything.
Mr Thaksin is lurking in Cambodia and is ready to come back whenever he can rock the country and we all know he is trying as much as he can.
The role of the stabilizing King in Thailand is very uncertain at the moment and should anything happen to him Thailand would be very unstable. Rumors of his illness plunges the Thai stock market just a few month ago.
The Thai government has launched crackdowns in 2009 on foreigners owning farm land and controlling land in Phuket, even if they did not find anything a less foreign friendly government might.
The current government has also launched crackdowns on companies that own property in Thailand, according to the law the four people in your company have to REALLY work in the company. Do you have four Thai people running around your house? The accountant has to make false reports for you every year and fake statements you sign. If a less friendly government wanted they could take back loads of property in Thailand.
If you buy a lease something you do not own it and the current REALLY legal limit is 30 years whatever the property broker promises you.
Buying a property in your Thai wife’s name will not make it yours and if you have kid she probably get custody and the house from the Thai court. If you married a former Thai girl that is so money hungry that she sold her body to get a Prada bag then I wish you good luck with that as well.
Profit for Thai Property Agents Your Loss
The property agents make profit from the seller or land lord of the property. They get from between 3-10 percentage of the sum. They can also make money referring you to lawyers, accountants and other things.
When you rent a house for a year for 100 000 THB a month the property agent get the first month rent from your deposit. He makes a quick 100 000 THB for just showing you a house and in most of the cases the owner will be there anyway.
If you buy a house for 100 0000 he will get anything from 30 000 THB to 100 000 THB after week to month after the buy went trough.
But do not think that this does not cost you anything; the money the seller has to pay to the agent will also cost you. You will not get a discount; you will not get extras and probably a higher price then what you’re normally paying.
The agent has no profit to give you a lower price they will work to give you a higher price since that will affect their commission.
The Thai law and property agents
There is a new law that come affect the last years but that does cover the property agents.
What the agent’s promises you the seller do not have to follow.
There is no REAL agent organization and they fight internally with each other who are the really real one.
Many property agents in for example Pattaya do not even have a work permit to work in Thailand.
They have no insurance to cover your property if something was wrong.
They cannot be held accountable for what they say or do, see them as a waiter working for tips or even better the punters that try to drag you into see a sexy show.
No foreign fancy diploma will make them a legal property agent in Thailand.
Thailand Property not a good Investment right now
Despite what they tell you it is not a great investment to buy property for example in Pattaya. The market is very “full” but they still building more. There is room for much more houses and when no city plan ever going to stop them they just going to build more. If you take a bike ride around Pattaya you will see loads of properties just standing empty.
If you take inner London for example it will have very few high rise buildings in the future and the demand is great so you know the value will go up. In Thailand they not even sure how many buildings will be created next year.
Next year your property with a sea view and ocean breeze can have a backyard view and the smell of car park. It has already happened to many apartment owners in Pattaya over the years. To have a empty green land next to your house is not a good thing in Thailand.
Thai people seldom buy second hand they want to buy new things all the time so the property market and the prices you investing in are for foreigners. If the foreigners stop buying the Thais will not buy your properties they will buy new once. The salary of the Thai “normal” person will never cover these over prices properties and the 1000 families in Thailand can buy your property already owns the property project.
The prices of properties in Thailand are mainly set buy the property agents and they have not adjusted them down for many years, why should they do live for the high prices.
Do you really think a 3 room apartment on a beach that is so polluted that you cannot swim in it is worth 300 million THB?
The fact that they can do this is because people rather leave there house empty then rent them cheap because it does not cost you anything to leave your house empty in Thailand. But that is about to change in a very near future with a new tax law in Thailand.
New Tax law in Thailand
The new tax in Thailand will make it much cheaper to transfer a property and to let it out (another reason to wait) but you will have to pay tax for your property and land empty or not. This will lead to that people do not want empty properties anymore and will start renting them out cheaper and your investment will go away. The other tax is on land and if you keep your land empty year after year you will have to pay more and more tax so that will lead to more development and that will lead to lower prices. So your empty apartment that in Thailand will soon start costing you money even it’s empty and all others probably have the same idea as you have, lower the price.
This is off course my opinion and i welcome yours as always.
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